Wallace "Tim" Duke Oral History Transcript
Item
- Title
- Wallace "Tim" Duke Oral History Transcript
- Description
- Transcript of an oral history interview with Wallace "Tim" Duke, who was drafted into the Army during WWII and did his basic training at Camp Howze in Gainesville, Texas.
- Date
- 2015, December 17
- Source
- UNT Oral History Collection
- Subject
- UNT Oral History
- Historical Memory
- Wallace "Tim" Duke
- oral history
- Camp Howze
- extracted text
-
U N I V E R S I T YO F N O R T H T E X A S
O R A L H I S T O R YC O L L E C T I O N
N U M BER
1 8 5 6
lnterview with
WALLACE"TIM''DUKE
D e c e m b e r1 7 . 2 0 1 5
Place of Interview: Denton,TX
lnterviewer:
Tiffany Smith
Terms of Use:
Open
Appr oved:
Date:
Itlr':t fr ,
D e c e m b e r1 7 , 2 0 1 5
Copyright ©2015
THE BOARD OF REGENTS OF
THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS
IN THE CITY OF DENTON, TEXAS
All rights reserved. No part of this work may be reproduced or transmitted in any form by any
means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying and recording, or by any information
storage or retrieval system without permission in writing from the Director of the Oral History
Program or the University Archivist, University of North Texas, Denton, Texas 76203
Oral History Collection
Wallace “Tim” Duke
Interviewer:
Tiffany Smith
Date: December 17, 2015
Place of Interview: Denton, Texas
[Editor’s note: Mr. Duke’s daughter, Cindy, is present for the
interview.]
Ms. Smith:
This is Tiffany Smith with the University of North
Texas Oral History Program. Today is December 17,
2015, and I am interviewing Wallace “Tim” Duke at
his home in Denton, Texas. Thank you for meeting
with us today. Now, your name is Wallace Duke?
Mr. Duke:
Wallace Duke.
Ms. Smith:
But you go by Tim.
Mr. Duke:
Yes.
Ms. Smith:
Okay, can you tell us why you go by that name?
Mr. Duke:
Yes. I have a twin brother, Hollis Duke. When we
were young, I was smaller than he was. At that
age we had funny papers [comic strips] that had
[the character] Tiny Tim. It showed Tiny Tim
flying an airplane and all that. I got the nickname
of “Tiny Tim” at that time.
Smith:
Okay.
Duke:
Nothing unusual. He was Hollis and I was Wallace,
actually our given names.
Smith:
Okay, just for our records, can you state your full
legal name?
Duke:
The full legal name? Wallace B. Duke.
Smith:
Okay.
Duke:
And now, in later parts of life, people have gotten
to where they call me Mr. Wallace instead of Duke. I
don’t know how they got it reversed but now they call
me Mr. Wallace a lot of times. My actual name is
Wallace B. Duke and his is Hollis D. Duke.
Smith:
Okay.
Duke:
He is in some of the scripts here. [Referencing the
military paperwork and timelines nearby.]
Smith:
Okay, and when were you born?
Duke:
1924.
Smith:
Okay, and where were you born?
Duke:
Fruitvale,
Texas.
F-R-U-I-T-V-A-L-E,
Texas,
about
sixty miles east of Dallas on Highway 80.
Smith:
Okay, and did you have any siblings besides your twin
brother?
2
Duke:
Oh, yes. I had three sisters and a younger brother.
Smith:
Okay, and what is the order? Were you guys the oldest?
Duke:
Faye Marie is the oldest girl. Ruby Lee is next. Anna
Mae is the third, and then Hollis and Wallace, which
we’re twins, and then Billy Dean.
Smith:
Okay.
Duke:
That’s the order they came in.
Smith:
All right.
Duke:
Billy Dean is now eighty-seven, I think.
Smith:
Oh, okay. Wonderful. What were your parents’ names?
Duke:
Ben Amos Duke--back in those days they had Amos and
such. Ben Amos and Norena Duke.
Smith:
Okay, and what did your parents do for a living?
Duke:
Farmers.
Smith:
Both? Did they both work?
Duke:
We had a 100-acre farm--
Smith:
Oh, wow.
Duke:
--at Highway 19 and Highway 80. [Gestures] Canton is
here, nine miles where Highway 19 crossed Highway 80.
We were the second farm off of Highway 80.
Smith:
Okay.
Duke:
100-acre farm.
Smith:
Growing up with that many siblings, I assume you all
helped on the farm.
3
Duke:
Oh yes.
Smith:
Can you just share a little bit of your memory about
farming with us?
Duke:
In the morning I got up, built a fire in the heater.
Daddy
and
mother--we
always
had
hogs
killed
and
dressed--He would fry the meat from the hogs and my
mother would make two big pans of biscuits to feed
eight people, every morning, eight people. Just think
about that today [laughs softly].
We never went hungry. We always had a garden,
but actually we raised cotton, corn, and maize as our
staple crops. We had turnips, chickens with eggs, and
milk with three cows usually, and they had calves. Do
you know anything about milking a cow?
Smith:
A little bit.
Duke:
Do you know why you let the calves nurse first?
Smith:
No.
Duke:
So the cow will give her milk down. She will hold her
milk back for her calf but you let that calf nurse
and she will give her milk down. After about five
minutes you take the calf off, tie him to the fence,
and then get the milk. That’s the reason that a cow
is milked in that manner.
4
We had two horses. We fed the horses corn and
got them ready for work. We usually had four or five
hogs and then chickens. We had Dominickers and white
leghorns, mostly laying hens. Some of the chickens
are meat chickens; the Dominicker was one of them.
The white leghorns are an egg-laying [breed], so we
had plenty of eggs to eat and milk. We never went
hungry because we always had a garden and fruit trees,
peaches, apples, whatever.
Smith:
Were your parents from Texas?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Both of them?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
When did they purchase that farm you lived on?
Duke:
The
farm
was
inherited
or
handed
down
from
his
grandfather.
Smith:
Oh, okay. So it had been a family farm.
Duke:
That’s right.
Smith:
Okay, great. So you were living on that farm in the
Depression years?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
What do you remember about the time period, being a
farmer during the Depression?
5
Duke:
As I said, we never went hungry. A lot of people did.
A lot of people were not raised where they had hogs
and meat and all that. We always had a farm and we
always had plenty to eat. We had vegetables but there
were a lot of people that went hungry back in those
days.
Getting to the military, I used to catch a bus
right up here at Gainesville into Dallas, get on a
streetcar for seven cents, go to downtown, transfer
to another streetcar that went out on Highway 80. So
I could go all the way through Dallas for seven cents.
That’s what money was back in those days. If you had
a nickel it’d get you a little something.
Hollis and I never had any experiences going to
town or anything like you do today. We got fifteen
cents one Saturday and we went to the show [movie].
The shows back then had Buck Rodgers and Flash Gordon
as a serial. We got in for fifteen cents and we saw
the serial. We thought the show was over so we got up
and left, but that’s what the show cost, fifteen
cents. [Laughs softly]
Smith:
All right. So what did you and your siblings do for
fun in Fruitvale?
6
Duke:
We didn’t have to have anything particularly. I played
with snuff bottles, the little square snuff bottles.
That’s about what we had to play with. Another funny
incident: they had the old flying Jenny plane back
then that would come fly over. He’d decide, “Hey, this
is a pretty good place,” so he’d land in a cotton
field right out here or a corn field. Here would come
all the neighbors to see this airplane. That was a
flying Jenny and he would give rides for five dollars.
So when we were working in the cotton field and
we’d see a plane coming over, we’d want that plane to
crash so that we could get the wheels off of it. We
never had any wheels to build anything. So that was
our hope, that the plane would--we didn’t know about
the guy that was in the plane, but we wanted the
wheels off of that plane. So that is what we looked
forward to, something like that.
As far as buying a car or anything, we had an
old 1935 Dodge pickup. It was the only thing we had.
Of course, this is before the war. We used it for
everything, to haul hay out of the barn. Later we got
to hauling tomatoes to the Irving Street Market in
Dallas, which is sixty miles. We’d sell a basket of
7
tomatoes for twenty-five cents. That was the price of
things back then.
My wife says I talk too much. Am I talking too
much? [Laughing]
Smith:
No, you’re doing a great job. No, you’re good.
Duke:
Anyhow, that’s the way our life was. We never wanted
for anything. We never had anything. We didn’t know
the difference. That’s the way we were raised. Life
was good and all our families were healthy. We had
relatives, of course, that lived right around us. I
think back in those days we had never been out of the
county. We never rode a car, bus, or anything. We
didn’t have anything to ride. We lived a life on the
farm. That was it. Our cousins and uncles and so forth
would come to visit. Of course we’d have a big chicken
fry on Saturday or Sunday, stuff like that.
Christmas: we all got together for Christmas. I
remember we had socks. We’d hang our socks on the
mantle of the fireplace and they always made sure that
we had an orange and an apple and some crinkle candy.
What is that? What do they call that candy? I don’t
know.
C. Duke: Ribbon?
8
Duke:
Yes, [ribbon] candy we’d call it. We always had that
in our sock and you’d have your name on your sock. So
that was our Christmas.
One Christmas--Daddy and Mother never had much
money, but we went to town in a wagon, two horses
pulling
a
wagon.
I’ve
got
one
up
there
I
made.
[Referencing a model wagon on a shelf] I’ll show you.
On the way home we kept getting under the spring seats
to see what they had bought us. Well, they bought one
little ball, about that big; it had little stars on
it. I think it was blue. That’s the only thing we got
for Christmas but you couldn’t have asked for anything
to beat that because everybody played with that ball.
You’d see how many times you could bounce it without
missing a bounce. The whole family played with that
ball. That was our Christmas. We didn’t know the
difference. We thought that was what you were supposed
to do.
So that’s the way I was raised. Never wanted for
anything because we always had plenty to eat. Our
relatives were close. In fact, around Fruitvale there
is a little community of Lawrence Springs. There was
one artesian spring there and they call it Lawrence
Springs. That’s the way all of our family was raised
9
around that. Anyhow, if I talk too much stop me.
[Laughs]
Smith:
No, you’re doing great. So you and your family never
went hungry during the Depression, but did the farm
stay economically profitable during that time?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Yes. It was good?
Duke:
Yes. You’d get $200 for a bale of cotton. Whenever
you picked cotton, the whole family picked cotton.
You’ve seen the cotton sack that you pulled? Okay.
Everybody would pick cotton, maybe 100 to 150 pounds
each. You’d get 1,500 pounds of cotton, which was a
lot of cotton. You’d put that on a wagon and you’d
haul it to the gin. When it was ginned you might get
a 500-pound bale of cotton. At that time $200 was a
lot for a 500-pound bale of cotton. That was a living.
Smith:
So the [price of] cotton stayed good during the
Depression?
Duke:
Right. Yes. In Fruitvale you had a service station,
family-owned service station. Gas was ten cents per
gallon. It was one of these pumps, you pump it and
you sit there and watch it drain into the car. When
it got through you handed him one dollar.
10
Now if you didn’t have a dollar back in those
days and he was good enough to take your credit, he’d
write down, “$1: Tim Duke.” At the end of this when
you got your $200 bale sold you’d pay him off. It took
a family man running a grocery store to have enough
money to give you credit for the year to people. He
was giving credit to several people but that’s the
only way he made his living so he went through the
depression that way.
Smith:
So your family used that credit system?
Duke:
Yes, ma’am.
Smith:
Okay.
Duke:
Yes, we didn’t have money. Of course, as I said, we
never went hungry. We wasn’t rich but all we had to
do is go down to the store and get ten cents. We never
had candy or anything like that, hardly. We did our
own meal. We usually ground our corn and made the
meal,
but
for
flour
and
sugar
you’d
get
it
and
whatever it was. You’d write it down and he'd sign it
and at the end of the cotton season when you’d get
your crop then you’d pay him off. He lived from year
to year by collecting from other people. That’s the
only way back in the depression that people lived.
Smith:
On credit.
11
Duke:
Yes, on credit.
Smith:
Yes.
Okay.
Were
there
a
lot
of
other
farms
in
Fruitvale?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Okay, was that the main--
Duke:
Yes, that was all. There were just other farms then.
You visited your farmer that may be a quarter of a
mile distance away. We always visited each other. In
fact, we had one black family that lived maybe a
quarter of a mile from the house and they would come
by and say, “Yes sir, Mr. Duke.” They were honorable
people and so was Daddy. He always honored them in
any way he could and they would bring their own cup
if they wanted to drink out of the well. They brought
their own cup. Most of the people did back in those
days. So, where am I? [Laughing]
Smith:
Do you remember race being an issue in Fruitvale for
that one black family or was that--
Duke:
No. No, never. There never was. Black people were just
as welcome then as they are today.
Smith:
You said your dad had good relationships with other
people and in getting credit and with other farmers.
Can you just tell me a little bit about your memory
12
of your father? What about him stands out in your
mind?
Duke:
Very honorable man that never had anything hardly
except for the farm. He more or less inherited the
farm. It was handed down to him. People lived off
that, what they made [with it].
Smith:
What about your mother?
Duke:
Mother, same way. A helper, very much so. They worked
together. Everything was done with them and the kids.
Everything was
done and there
was no griping
or
fussing. It was just everyday work.
My job when I got up in the morning was--my daddy
would come in and get me by my nose and I would build
a fire in the heater. We always had to have the wood
cut. We cut our own wood. I’d get up in the morning
and build a fire in the heater. He’d go in the kitchen
and build a fire in the range in there, start frying
bacon or sausage. My twin brother got ready to go milk
the cows. We would always go milk those three or four
cows, feed the hogs, and feed the horses. We had corn
for the hogs and the horses. We would feed the horses
in a wagon bed and prepare them for work in the field.
You always shuck your corn and throw it in there and
they’d eat it while you were eating your meal.
13
When you got your meal finished we’d go to the
field in the daylight most of the time and the horses
would be ready. You’d harness them and go to the field
and stay in the field sometimes until dark. It all
depended on the weather. You had to plan everything
by the weather. That’s the way we lived.
Smith:
So did you attend school in Fruitvale?
Duke:
Yes, not in Fruitvale but in Edgewood. Edgewood was
three miles up the way. We graduated from Edgewood
High School and here comes the war. All of a sudden
Japan decided to bomb Pearl Harbor.
Smith:
Were you in high school when Pearl Harbor happened?
Duke:
Yes, I was a junior. In fact, I finished in 1942. In
1942 my sister had married and moved to Port Arthur,
Texas. The war broke out. They call it “broke out,”
I don’t know why. Anyhow, her and her husband, he went
to work in a shipyard at Orange. He told me, “Tim,
whenever you graduate you can come down and live with
us until you can get on at a shipyard.” That’s how we
got into the war and war effort. At that time I think
there were twenty-nine defense plants on the east
coast of Texas including the gulf. I don’t know how
many on the west coast.
14
I graduated in 1942 and Mother and Dad took me
to Canton, Texas, which was nine miles away from where
we lived. I’d never hitchhiked. I didn’t know where
Port Arthur, Texas, was but they put me out on the
streets of Canton. I stuck my thumb out. If you were
military age they didn’t care what you looked like,
there was no farmer that was going to pass you up.
They would pick you up if they were only going ten
miles down the road. [Emotion in voice] Excuse my-the first one that picked me up. He said, “Where are
you going?” I said, “Port Arthur, Texas.” “Okay.” So
we went to Port Arthur, Texas.
My sister says, “When you get there, you get on
a bus on the edge of town and you ride to,” I don’t
know what street it was now but anyhow, “You go to
the 1000 block of that street, you get off and you
walk two blocks and you’ll be at our house.” So that’s
the way I got to Port Arthur and got started. I stayed
with them a week or two. He got me on at the shipyard
in Orange, Texas. I don’t know, are we advancing too
fast on this?
Smith:
No, you’re doing great.
Duke:
Consolidated Steel Shipyard was at Orange and I got
a job on it. I had never worked an hourly job or
15
anything. I was just a farmer. The first I hired out
was July 3, [1942], and I worked the 3rd, 4th, and
5th. I think I got $75. I’d never had $75 in my life.
[Chuckles softly]
Smith:
And what did you do with $75?
Duke:
I paid my rent, which at that time they had barracks
at the shipyard grounds and I think it was $8 a week
for room and board. I paid that and then I turned
around and sent some home. I don’t remember how much.
That’s how I progressed in the shipyard.
I worked in the shipyard from midnight until 8:00
a.m. That was the way the shifts were turning. I would
go to work at midnight and get off at 8:00 a.m. I’d
go to the barracks on the grounds and go to bed. The
next night at midnight, I’d go.
Back then they had a lot of music. The old songs
like “Don’t Sit under the Apple Tree with Anyone Else
but Me” and “Give Me One Dozen Roses,” and stuff like
that. Every night when I went up to work they would
be playing that music and that is very much a memory
at that time.
I
worked
[shipfitter’s]
there
six
helper.
months.
You’d
have
I
worked
the
flat
as
a
keel,
would be cut like that [gestures], it would be on a
16
slab. They called it outside the pre-assembly. It
would be on a metal slab. Then they would put the
vertical inside the flat keel of the vertical keel.
The vertical keel would go on the inside and then they
have to weld it. While they were welding, I was
setting brackets. I had to set brackets. Now, this is
the bottom of the ship and they built destroyer
escorts. At that time that’s what they were building.
It would take three months to build a ship.
I worked as a [shipfitter’s] helper those six
months I was there. One guy told me, “Now you’re due
a raise in six months. If you don’t get one, go tell
that foreman up there that you’re going to go to the
army.” Stupid me, I did. I said, “I’m due a raise in
six months.” He said, “Yes, I know.” I said, “If I
don’t get one I’m going to the army.” He said, “Well,
go ahead.” [Laughing]
Smith:
Called you.
Duke:
Yes, he called me.
Smith:
Did you like building ships?
Duke:
Yes, very much. In fact, I see ships today and I
wonder about them. Sometimes while they were welding
I would go down in the ship. You could get lost in
one of those things pretty easy. Those ships were 300
17
or 400 feet long and they were destroyer escorts. The
destroyer was the fastest. They ran about. This was
an escort for destroyers. So that put it in place.
Smith:
Orange, Texas, was a pretty big wartime manufacturing
town, right? A lot of people moved there for that--
Duke:
Orange, Texas, had about 500 people in it when it
started. When the war broke out, then it was 5,000
people.
Smith:
Yes.
Duke:
They didn’t have anywhere to stay. They would stay in
a chicken coop, a garage, or anywhere to get a place
to stay and a place to work.
Smith:
Okay, so when you got there it was already pretty big?
Duke:
Yes, the shipyard had already built barracks on the
grounds. That was where I stayed. Anyhow, I worked
there for six months. That was 1942. I’ll get it right
after a while. In 1943 I went into the service.
Smith:
Let me back up for just one second. I want to ask you,
you would have still been in school when Franklin
Roosevelt was running for president.
Duke:
Right.
Smith:
Do you remember Roosevelt running for president?
Duke:
Yes, I do.
18
Smith:
How did your town feel about that? Did they support
him?
Duke:
He ran against Wendell L. Willkie. Wendell L. Willkie
wanted to go ahead and declare war on Germany, and
that’s the reason he didn’t get to be president.
Nobody wanted to declare war on Germany. Wendell L.
Willkie, that was his platform. That’s how Roosevelt
got back in. I guess this was his first term? He
stayed in for eight [sic].
Smith:
A
long
time.
Do
you
remember
your
family
being
political at all? Did they support the Democratic
Party or were they-Duke:
It was never mentioned.
Smith:
Oh, okay. When you were in high school the war in
Europe was already breaking out. Did you follow that
at all? Were you interested in the war in Europe?
Duke:
All I knew is that I was going to go sooner or later
because I was eighteen years old. Before I went in I
quit the shipyard about a week or two ahead of time.
I knew I was going to be drafted. By the way, they
drafted me at Beaumont. I was raised in Van Zandt
County in East Texas, Canton, but they drafted me in
Beaumont. Yes, I was drafted there.
19
About
a
week
or
two
before
I
was
drafted
curiosity got the best of me. My cousin, I called him
Dick Duke at that time, had already been to Africa,
Italy, and Germany, and he was home on furlough. I
said, “Dick, what do you do when you get in the army?”
He said, “Whatever you do, don’t volunteer to be a
truck
driver.
They’ll
put
you
to
pushing
a
wheelbarrow.” That stuck in here [points to head]. So
I was drafted.
Did
you
know
they
had
a
camp
up
here
in
Gainesville? That’s where I wound up. I went in the
service at Fort Sam [Houston, in San Antonio].
Smith:
Okay, I’m going to back up one more time.
Duke:
Sure.
Smith:
Then we’ll go forward again. Do you remember Pearl
Harbor? What was happening for you when Pearl Harbor
happened?
Duke:
Yes, I was in high school and we went home and
somebody
said,
“Pearl
Harbor!”
I
said,
“Where’s
that?” Nobody knew where Pearl Harbor was. They had
never heard of it. That’s how it was introduced to us
because it was a place that we never seen or heard
of. Of course, it became known pretty well from then
on.
20
Smith:
You said that you knew that you were going to end up
fighting in the war.
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Did you want to volunteer to fight?
Duke:
I thought about it and at that time I had too much to
do at the farm but I never missed the farm. I went to
Canton and hitchhiked to Orange and to work at Port
Arthur. I came home on leave. I had quit my job there.
Smith:
You quit at the shipyard?
Duke:
Yes. I knew. Uncle Sam had already sent me a letter.
Smith:
So when you get your draft summons, what do you think?
Duke:
Everybody was anxious to get it over with. We thought
we were going to go over there and clean this thing
up. I was very eager just like everybody else. In
fact, my cousin Dick had joined the next day after
the war broke out. All of us at eighteen knew we were
going. We were anxious to get there and get it over
with.
Smith:
Did you know any of your friends in your hometown who
tried to go into the service and was rejected?
Duke:
No.
Smith:
No, all of you got to go?
Duke:
Yes.
21
Smith:
Okay, so you get your draft letter. You quit the
shipyard because you have been drafted and you go
home.
Duke:
Yes. Then Dick came home on furlough and I asked him
this question. To continue with that, I got in at Fort
Sam Houston [and spent] about two or three days down
there. Then they shipped me.
Smith:
Did they do any sort of physical exam on you or
anything, or did you just go straight in?
Duke:
Yes, you went through military questions.
Smith:
What was that like?
Duke:
I didn’t make much on it. [Laughs] I wasn’t very good
at it.
Smith:
What sort of stuff did they ask you? Do you remember?
Duke:
Yes, if this cog is going this way which way is that
cog down there going? Then they’d give you a picture
of a bunch a people and a picture of names and you
had to put the name with the picture. I didn’t do very
well.
Smith:
But you got in.
Duke:
I got in. They weren’t going to refuse you. If you
were physically able they would take you. I guess I
was physically able.
22
Anyhow, from Fort Sam Houston, they put us on a
train. Then nobody knew where they were going or how
long it was going to take to get there. I wound up at
Gainesville, [Texas]. I didn’t know where Gainesville
was. I didn’t know anything but there was a camp being
built
at
Gainesville,
Camp
Howze.
They
had
the
barracks and all that. We did a lot of work on the
streets. We finished it up, really.
The first night, here was this big barracks. That
guy got close to the fire, this one over here didn’t.
They had a fire at each end. If you got too close to
the fire it was always too hot. If you’re out here
you’re cold.
The next morning we got up and the old captain,
[Captain Zack]-Smith:
You joined the army.
Duke:
No, they drafted me.
Smith:
But you ended up in the army.
Duke:
Yes, at Beaumont they asked you a question. “Do you
want to go to the navy or the army?” I said, “Navy!”
So they sent me to the army. [Laughter]
Smith:
It was a trick question.
Duke:
Not necessarily. They were filling different areas at
that time and they needed more in the army than they
23
did the navy. So that’s the way I wound up in the
army. It was in the infantry.
The next morning I got up at Camp Howze, lined
up against the building. The captain says, “How many
of you can drive a truck?” Everyone is waving their
hand except Tim Duke. I did not wave my hand. He said,
“You, come here.” I stepped out. I drove a jeep for
three years. That’s how I got to drive a jeep. People
would probably say that that’s a lie. It’s not. That’s
the way I got to drive a jeep. Really and truly, back
then we had an old 1935 Dodge. We used it to haul hay
out at the barn, but that’s all the driving that I’ve
ever done. I got a brand-new jeep out at Camp Howze,
Texas.
Smith:
Was it different to drive?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Yes, in what way?
Duke:
It was like this one right here. [Referring to a model
jeep] That’s the [86th] Infantry, K Company; here on
the bumper too. That was the jeep I drove for three
years. They were similar. It was just like that.
Smith:
So you were in [Camp Howze]; you did your basic
training in [Camp Howze]?
24
Duke:
Basic training and advanced training. I didn’t know
it at the time but our division was used mostly as a
trainer. We’d get a bunch of people in and train them,
basic training and advanced training. Then they’d
ship them out.
The 84th Division was also at Gainesville, the
84th and the 86th. During the Bulge in Germany the 84th
Division was shipped. They went right in the middle
of it.
Smith:
And you were [86th]?
Duke:
We were 86th.
Smith:
You
were
86th,
okay.
So
your
division
stayed
in
Gainesville.
Duke:
Right.
Smith:
For how long?
Duke:
We stayed there eight months.
Smith:
Training and helping training.
Duke:
Training, yes. We’d get some in and we’d train them
and they’d ship out right straight to Germany. Then
we’d get some more in. Each time we had to take basic
training and advanced training over and over--
Smith:
With them. How did you feel about it?
25
Duke:
I didn’t want it. [Laughing] In fact, about halfway
through they decided to get some more people in their
Air Force--it was the Air Corps then. You knew that?
Smith:
The Army Air Corps?
Duke:
Yes. Some paratroopers. So I thought, “Hey, I’ll go
to paratroopers. I’ll get out of this thing.” I was
too dumb to pass the test so I did not get in.
Smith:
So you stayed at Gainesville.
Duke:
I stayed in at Gainesville.
Smith:
Where was your twin brother at this time?
Duke:
My twin brother married when he graduated and he went
in four months behind me. He went to Camp Wolters. He
was at Camp Wolters [outside of Mineral Wells, Texas].
They made him a corporal.
Even though I didn’t pass the test to get in,
within three months I made technician, fifth-grade,
which was a corporal. That what I went all the way
through my service, T-5. [When I got my discharge, I
made sergeant.]
Hollis was at Weatherford. Our mother, bless her
heart, she wanted us put together. She said, “He ought
to be with him.” She wrote a letter to a congressman
and asked him if we could be put together and he did.
My captain and his captain liked to kill us both. They
26
didn’t want us together and they let us know they
didn’t want us together. Old Captain Jones said, “A
man from Texas is not running my business here.” We
left Gainesville in September or October and went to
the
maneuvers
in
Louisiana,
which
was
close
to
Alexandria.
Smith:
So at this time you and your brother were in the same
[unit]?
Duke:
No.
Smith:
Not yet.
Duke:
Not yet. We had two months in the woods in Louisiana
and then they shipped us to Camp Livingston, which
was at Alexandria.
Smith:
What did you do in the woods for two months?
Duke:
They’d take you out in the woods and the woods was
woods back then. They’d drop you off out there with
a compass and they’d say, “Now find your way back.”
It was a pretty good job to find your way back. Some
of them didn’t do it. They had to go get them. That
was the training we had.
Actually I thought they were training us for the
Pacific. We trained there two months; went to Camp
Livingston for four months. Hollis showed up there,
27
my twin brother. At the end of four months we shipped
to California.
Smith:
What did you guys do at Camp Livingston?
Duke:
Camp Livingston, in the woods we trained. Of course,
everywhere you went you had to learn to march and you
had to break your weapons down, overhaul them and all
that. I had a .30 caliber machine gun, a .45 caliber
pistol, an M-1, which was at that time a new weapon.
[I] had to learn how to break them down at night and
put them back together blindfolded.
Smith:
Oh.
Duke:
You were going to be confronted with that out on the
battlefield so you had to learn to do it here. In my
jeep I had a scabbard with the M-1, I had a .45
strapped to my hip, and a .50 caliber overhead, and
that’s the way I drove the jeep. There the tanks and
everything--I
found
out
later
that
maneuvers
in
Louisiana had been visited by every official in the
United States Army and had gone through maneuvers in
Louisiana, it included all of them. They had their
training and we had ours.
All the tanks and everything had been through
the mud and everything. Try driving a jeep between
ruts of a tank. You had to stay out of the ruts,
28
otherwise you’re stuck. So I drove a jeep all but two
months that I was down there. Everywhere I went I was
issued a jeep, two jeeps actually. I’ve got some
pictures of them somewhere.
We went to San Diego. Started out and we did
close order drills on the concrete there and then we
went up the coast, 101 Highway all the way up. We
maneuvered and did amphibious training.
Smith:
So you’re thinking at this point that you’re going to
the Pacific?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
How did you feel about that? Did you have a preference
on the front?
Duke:
You don’t have a preference. Wherever they say, you’re
going.
Smith:
You were happy just to be moving?
Duke:
It was training. I knew I had to go through it.
We
went
all
the
way
from
San
Diego
to
San
Francisco. We took in one little island, San Clemente
Island, on the way up. There wasn’t anything but goats
on the island. We took a ship out there. Actually,
Hollis went. I didn’t go on that one.
Back then the war had just broken out; there was
a lot of things we didn’t know. We took my jeep and
29
we
put
stuff
around
the
spark
plugs
and
around
everything and ran the tailpipe up where it would get
air and we tried to drive it in the ocean. It didn’t
work. They tried everything. Even when I was at Camp
Howze we tried the weasel, and you’ll never see--I
think I have one book on the weasel. They had the old
duck. The weasel was a little vehicle that had an
amphibious bed on it, on the chassis of a jeep. We
sunk one at Lake Murray up here in [Oklahoma].
Wherever
we
were
needed
is
where
we
went,
wherever we were trained to go. We had calisthenics.
You had to take exercise every day and you had to
learn close order drill and how to give commands, all
the way up.
We wound up at San Luis Obispo, which is a camp.
We were there about four months. We were issued khakis
and we were all rested up. We went to Camp Stoneman,
which is the next camp up. We put on these khakis,
come back down, fixing to go to the Pacific. We got
on the train and [passed through] Farwell, Texas,
[where one guy waved at] his mom and dad. [People
would come to the station to watch the troops go by.]
We wound up going around Lake Erie. Wound up in
Boston, Massachusetts, and right here [referencing
30
his paperwork] I’ve got the whole thing showing when
we went to Boston, when we got on the ship, which was
the USS Lejeune.
Smith:
Once you were at Boston, when you were leaving there
you were heading toward Europe.
Duke:
We didn’t know.
Smith:
You didn’t know that.
Duke:
We were on the ship, yes.
Smith:
So you know you’re going somewhere.
Duke:
Right.
Smith:
They tell you to get on the ship. You guys get on the
ship and you have no idea where you’re going. You had
your twin brother with you at the time.
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Did you like having your brother with you?
Duke:
Did I like it? No, not necessarily, because I was
always worried about him and he was always worried
about me, so not necessarily.
That particular trip, we were not allowed on the
deck. It was January or February.
Smith:
Of what year?
Duke:
[1945.]
Smith:
Okay.
31
Duke:
February of 1945. We couldn’t throw a cigarette butt
out. The Germans had submarines chasing us. We went
all the way across the Atlantic, ten minutes this way,
ten minutes that way with maybe [fifty] ships. We seesawed all the way across. We landed at Le Havre,
France, on March 1, 1945.
Okay. Are you tired of this yet? [Laughing]
Smith:
No, it’s wonderful.
Duke:
Okay, we went to Le Havre, France, which had been
taken and retaken by the United States. All we saw
was buildings [that had been] obliterated completely.
We got on trucks and we went to Camp Old Gold. They
had camps Chesterfield, Lucky Strike, Old Gold; and
they were eight-men tents. We wound up going to Old
Gold. That’s in about the middle of France.
While we were there I had no jeep so we had to
go
to
Paris
and
get
vehicles.
Then
we
went
to
Cherbourg and picked up vehicles. That’s me. Hollis
was training all that time while we were there in
basic training and advanced training. I had to go get
vehicles.
The engineers had prepared Cherbourg where ships
could come in and bring vegetables and stuff. That’s
32
how the supplies got to us. They came into Cherbourg
and Paris and coastal places.
We’d get in the back of a GI truck and go to
Cherbourg and each one of us would drive a vehicle
back. We supplied the companies with vehicles and I
wound up with my vehicle. We were at Camp Old Gold
for a month.
Smith:
While you were training in that month, did you get to
go
out
into
France
in
any
off-time
or
were
you
strictly on base?
Duke:
No, [no time], except they had their restrooms out on
the street.
Smith:
That was as far as you went?
Duke:
Yes. [Laughing] We left there by truck. Well, guess
who was bringing up the rear? Me. Did you ever drive
cat’s-eye driving [in convoy]?
Smith:
No.
Duke:
They have a cat’s eye on this thing. See that little
light right there? [Referencing a model jeep]
Smith:
Yes.
Duke:
That’s all you’ve got. They call it a cat’s eye. Back
here you’ve got a cat’s eye. At that time it was March
1945 and Germany was in full bloom. I brought up the
rear. One minute you look and you see that little
33
cat’s eye in front on you and the next minute it’s
gone so you speed up. About that time it just stopped.
Camp Old Gold, I’ve got it in here, 300 and
something miles to Cologne, Germany. On the way I
rounded a corner about sixty miles per hour. That guy
was gone up there and I flipped my jeep [trailer].
All the ammunition went in the ditch that was like
[thirty] feet deep. I was trying to upright my trailer
and the company commander had missed me and he came
back
to
get
ammunition
is
me.
We
still
uprighted
in
that
that
ditch,
thing.
I
The
believe,
somewhere.
Smith:
Oh really?
Duke:
Yes. [Laughing]
Smith:
You left it?
Duke:
That was our trip to Cologne, Germany. We got to
Cologne, the Rhine River: half of it was American and
half of it was German. So we’re sitting there lobbing
shells at each other. That night they set up rowboats.
About eight men in a rowboat and they rowed across
this river and would try to capture somebody over
there to get some information. One or two made it,
but one guy got lost. He didn’t get back.
Smith:
He was a prisoner?
34
Duke:
Yes. Well, we don’t know. We left him over there. We
don’t know what
happened to him. In my company,
several of them got to row the boat. They had a song
about rowing the boats. We had taken that training in
San Luis Obispo. We were selected to do boat training.
We found out once we got over there that crossing the
Rhine River had to be done.
Smith:
Did you guys get information? Were you able to find
out--
Duke:
Yes, they found out. Of course, we didn’t know. When
we turned whoever they captured over they got the
information they wanted from them. At that time half
of Cologne was taken.
I think the next morning we relieved the 8th
Division. They were all shot up. They didn’t have many
left.
Smith:
What had they been doing, the 8th?
Duke:
The 8th? It was an infantry division ahead of us. They
had taken Cologne.
Smith:
Okay. So you were replacing the 8th.
Duke:
Yes. They shipped out and we shipped in.
Smith:
Did you get to spend any time with the men of the 8th?
Duke:
No, in fact I just hollered at them and waved at them.
That’s it.
35
My wife and everybody says I talk too much: “You
just won’t shut up, so.”
Smith:
Well,
you’re
doing
perfect
for
oral
history.
[Laughing]
Duke:
Okay. Not a lot of people did what I did. I didn’t do
anything extra, but this is something I thought should
be told because of the way it happened. I’ve got the
whole thing written down right there. Every day I was
in this town or that town and so forth.
Smith:
So the 86th Division replaced the 8th in Cologne. What
did you guys do in Cologne?
Duke:
In Cologne we tried to run the Germans out! [Laughing]
I think they finally pulled back and we took the whole
thing. It went on and the next town is in here
[referencing paperwork]. We went into it.
In the United States or anywhere you train with
a jeep or a truck, don’t bunch up. That is the main
[lesson].
Don’t
bunch
up.
That
included
people
hiking. You kept fifty feet apart. On the German
[landscape],
you’re
supposed
to
keep
twice
your
speedometer reading as you’re moving down the road.
Smith:
Why is that?
Duke:
To keep one bomb from hitting ten people. In other
words, if they could get you bunched up--first day up
36
that’s what happened. We had jeeps, trucks, tanks,
and everything else on a country road and we go down
into this town. All of a sudden the lead man down
there stops. Guess what happens to the rest of us? We
all bumpered up. They had a 20-mm machine gun sitting
on a hill up there and they opened up on us. There
was bullets about as far as that right there [about
ten feet away] above my head coming up and down that
brick building.
I looked and
my machine gun
was
pointing straight up.
I went under the draw bar of the jeep. What
happened to me, I was chicken. I was getting out of
there and so was my gunner. We got pinned in and
that’s the one thing we had been taught all of our
career, don’t ever bunch up and here we were all
bumper-to-bumper in that town and they opened up on
us.
Smith:
So what happened? How long did that last?
Duke:
Okay, here comes a two-and-a-half-ton traverse mount
on his tank so he gets up there and [makes machine
gun noises]--they’re gone. In about five minutes they
were gone. That’s the way it happened. Anytime you’d
bunch up they’d get you. Even hiking that was one
thing you weren’t supposed to do.
37
So
we
went--it’s
all
here
[referencing
paperwork]. We went to the next town and the next town
and the next town.
It got to where--I was in the 4th Platoon, which
was the mortars and the machine guns. The mortars were
60-mm mortars. You’d set it up out here and you’d lob
your shell over there if you’re going to get that
jeep, you’d lob a shell over there. You had three
shells to get your place. You can get zeroed in on
him in three shells. That was part of the 4th Platoon
to chase them out.
When we got pinned down those mortars would open
up. The mortar had a baseplate and the gun itself,
but it was just a barrel. You had a bullet-shaped
ammunition and you’d drop it down in there. It’d hit
the
bottom
and--[sound
effect
of
takeoff]--that
sounds about like it. You could zero in on that little
man out there that was doing the shooting out there.
That was your 60-mm mortar. Then we had the 30-mm
machine gun. We had air-cooled and water-cooled. Ours
was air-cooled.
So I was in the 4th Platoon. I had two jeeps, two
trailers, and I had to furnish everything for that
company. I was K Company’s driver. Anything they
38
needed that I could get I would haul it to them.
That’s what my job was.
Smith:
So your group was pursuing the Germans as they were
pulling back, firing on them as they’re moving into
Germany. How far did you guys go?
Duke:
With the 60-mm mortar? Maybe into the forest. We’d
just lob a shell down there. By the third one you were
usually on the target.
Smith:
So how far into Germany did you guys end up?
Duke:
We wound up from Cologne going all the way up to
Aachen and Altena. We went to the Ruhr Pocket. There
was a pocket in there they wanted to get rid of. Okay,
there was about fifteen divisions and a division had
about
15,000
men
in
it.
They
had
about
fifteen
divisions to go into Germany. The Ruhr Pocket, they
called it, and they were chasing Germans out.
Well, that was Hitler’s last stand.
[End of Track 1. Begin Track 2]
Duke:
They were inventing the jet planes and everything and
lobbing England, when they fired the V-2 rockets at
England. This was an area where they were developing
39
all of that and we got the privilege of taking our
part of that Ruhr Pocket.
We
wound
up
at
Altena,
Germany;
another
incident. Things happen and sometimes you don’t plan
them. My jeep had not been serviced, greased, or
mechanically checked. When we got to Altena we got a
break. The Germans came over the hill with their hands
on their head. They were giving up to us instead of
Berlin. The Russians were coming in from Berlin so
they gave up to us. The hills were black with people
coming over the hills: men, women, Germans, the whole
outfit. They had their hands on their head.
They came by me and I had just crawled out from
under that jeep. I had greased the ten fittings on
the front of that jeep. I had just crawled out from
under there and I had the old grease gun. It actually
had grease in it. I was standing there and I looked
--these people were kind of like a horse shying away
from and they were shying away from me. They thought
I had a strange weapon, I guess. That’s what I call
“scaring them with a grease gun.” [Laughter]
Smith:
Do you remember what time period that was when they
were surrendering? Do you remember the month of that?
40
Duke:
There is a Life magazine that shows all of that. There
is
the
Ruhr
Pocket
right
there
[referencing
a
picture].
Smith:
Okay, so it was around April 8, [1945]?
Duke:
Yes. April was a busy month because they were giving
up. The Germans were tired of fighting and they were
giving up. April 12, I think, is when Roosevelt died.
Smith:
What did you think when you heard that news?
Duke:
Two or three days later somebody said, “Oh, Roosevelt
died.” That’s all there was to it.
Actually, communication, we didn’t have it. You
had two wires that ran from this phone to this phone
and you had a lineman that would run those two wires.
Each company that came in, he had to connect them with
I Company and I Company had to be hooked up with
somebody else. That was the way our communication was.
Smith:
Were you able to get letters from home? You guys were
moving so quickly.
Duke:
Not while I was in Germany. While I was in the
service, yes.
Smith:
But not while you were in Germany.
Duke:
No.
Smith:
So you’re pursuing the Germans; they’re surrendering
and then what?
41
Duke:
Do what?
Smith:
In April the Germans were starting to surrender,
running away from the Soviet troops.
Duke:
Yes. They were surrendering to us instead of Russia.
They were tired of fighting. The SS troops, which were
Hitler’s special troops, were pushing and if they
wouldn’t fight, they would kill them. They would hang
them. We went through several towns where people had
been hanged.
Smith:
You saw the bodies?
Duke:
Yes. The SS troops had done that. They finally just
gave up to us. The Germans--when we finally got on
down in the--when we pulled back out of Altena, we
went back to the Rhine River and crossed. I got a
pontoon bridge that I drove across. The last bridge
at Remagen had been destroyed. We had a pontoon. The
engineers had put in a pontoon bridge. I drove across
the pontoon bridge in my jeep. From there on we had
a spearhead, from there all the way down to Austria.
These people had given up up here, but all the
way down to Austria we had contact with Germans all
the way. The mayors, burgermeisters, got to where they
would come out and meet our troops and beg us not to
bomb their [steeples] because that is where the German
42
[snipers hid]. They would wind up in the [steeple]
and they would be sitting there picking us off. We
got to where with a 60 mm mortar, when we got close
to that town, we’d just start bombing the [steeple].
The burgermeister would assure us that there was
nobody in that [steeple].
Smith:
Did you fire on the [steeples] when that happened?
Duke:
After that my twin brother was standing next to a guy
that got it. It was from a [steeple]. It was two or
three days before May 8. Hollis never got over that.
Everywhere he went he gave donations for this boy. He
was standing next to him when he died.
That’s the way we were. We were on the tail end
of it. We only fought about forty days and then we
pulled back and came back to the States.
Smith:
Did
you
come
into
contact
with
a
lot
of
German
civilians? They were surrendering around you, but did
you get to-Duke:
Yes, but they were keeping their distance. They were
afraid of us. They were still afraid of us. We still
had stupid idiots that would line them up and shoot
them.
Smith:
In your group?
Duke:
Yes.
43
Smith:
Okay. How often did that happen?
Duke:
Not very often. I don’t know. One guy lined up about
ten of them one day across the road and just mowed
them down.
Smith:
German civilians?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Yes.
Duke:
Yes. I guess they thought we had to get even somehow
or another, and they did it.
Smith:
How did the rest of your company respond to things
like that?
Duke:
Most of them didn’t know it or they would ship them
out. If one guy got out of route about something or
other, they’d ship him out somewhere else.
Smith:
Did you ever come into contact with any of the Soviet
soldiers?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
What was that like?
Duke:
It was great. When we got to Altena--or Aachen, at
the Elbe, we met the Russians there. In fact, on your
K-rations and C-rations you had a little pack of
cigarettes with four cigarettes in it. I gave one
[Russian soldier] my pack of cigarettes and he was
puffing cigarettes when I left [chuckles].
44
When we got to the 84th Division we took the
Germans there. The [Russians] had been prisoners.
Anything
that
would
cook,
could
be
edible,
they
cooked. I left that town driving with a drumstick in
my hand. They would not eat until some of us would
eat.
Smith:
The Russians wouldn’t eat?
Duke:
Right.
Smith:
Yes.
Duke:
They had been prisoners but they made sure that we
ate before they did.
Smith:
I’m sorry, the prisoners were Russian prisoners?
Duke:
We had relieved them. They were Russians.
Smith:
That you had liberated?
Duke:
That we had liberated, yes.
Smith:
I just wanted to clarify.
Duke:
Yes. We were liberating 84th Division guys that had
come from right here. 84th Division, the Russians,
British, the Scotch, anything.
Smith:
What was that like?
Duke:
Oh, man.
Smith:
Coming into these prisoner of war camps and liberating
them? What was that experience like?
45
Duke:
[Pause] [Emotional] You ain’t never been hugged until
you’re
hugged
by
that.
Very,
very--they
were
appreciative because they had been held.
My buddy over here at church--I don't want to
mention his name--he and I were close. He was captured
in 1944. He was a belly gunner on a B-17. He said they
almost took his gun turret off. I don’t know if he’d
want me to tell this or not. When he bailed out he
was upside down. He said, “When I hit the ground it
knocked me out.” He said, “When I came to there was
a lot of women standing around, all the way around
me.” He said, “I couldn’t speak their language and I
didn’t know what they wanted.” They were after his
parachute, his silk parachute. He’s gone now, my
buddy.
We liberated--we started in Cologne. We’d take
a little village down yonder. First thing you know,
you’d look and there would be a bunch of people
running toward you. You don’t know whether to shoot
them or run! We were liberating. We liberated every
town we went into even down to Dachau.
Smith:
You got down to Dachau?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
What as that like?
46
Duke:
We
didn’t
get
into
the
relieving
of
the
Dachau
[concentration camp]. I don’t know what division did
but it was awful. We went back later and visited
Dachau.
Smith:
During that time period?
Duke:
No, this was after the war.
Smith:
Okay, so you didn’t actually go into any of the
concentration camps?
Duke:
Not into, but I do remember a brick building that had
a bunch of naked people. I guess they were Russian
[prisoners of war]. I don’t know, but they were
starved to death. We opened the door and let them out
on the side of a hill. We had K-rations and C-rations.
We shouldn’t had fed them but we did. They were so
hungry they couldn’t even eat. I think half of them
died the next night.
Smith:
Where was that? Do you remember what city or town that
was?
Duke:
That was down in the Bavarian Forest.
Smith:
You don’t know if they were Russian prisoners?
Duke:
They didn’t speak our language and we didn’t speak
theirs, but they were naked and they were just starved
to death. We just let them out on the side of the
47
hill. It’s all we could do. Lots of places that we
went into, they’d pretty well starved them.
My friend that used to be at church over here,
he’s dead now, but he said he was in a B-17 as a belly
gunner. He hit the ground. They plowed their land
deep, and he said, “That’s all that saved me. I hit
and if it had been hard dirt it would have killed me.”
He was all the way through Germany in Dachau and from
this one to that one and the other. He said he went
all the way down into Bavaria. The end of the war was
coming and we were liberating. He said, “There was
ten of us and this German sergeant had ten prisoners.”
He said he looked up and the German sergeant was gone.
He said, “Here came a vehicle in the yard.” One guy
was a sergeant, one guy asked him, “What do we do now,
Sergeant?” He said, “Just keep walking.” The old boys
opened the door and said, “Hi, yanks! How y’all?”
[Emotionally] So they knew they were liberated.
The funny story--they were liberated so they
said, “Well, we’ll send you back. It’ll be about a
mile back there. Do you think you can walk that far?”
They said, “I guess so. We walked all the way across
Germany.” This is all true. It sounds like--I asked
him if he walked back. “Yeah! Yeah!” So they started
48
back. Here comes a vehicle from a side road and it
was a bunch of Germans trying to give up to them. This
actually happened. They gave up to the guys that had
been liberated. They get a little further on. Here
they go into camp with a bunch of Germans that had
given up to us and we were liberated. That’s the
situation at the end of the war.
If we captured 100 Germans by the time we got to
the rear echelon where prisoners were taken there
would be 2000. They were giving up any way they could.
Some of those Life magazines that I’ve got shows the
Germans giving up. They were sitting beside the road.
I went through all that. I drove down through it.
We pulled back and then went back down into
Austria.
We
had
liberated
all
that
country
from
Remagen all the way down to Austria. We had to fight.
The Germans would give up if they could, but the SS
troops wouldn’t let them so we had to slaughter our
way down after these people up here had surrendered.
We got to Erding. There was a river and they had
built a [tunnel] under the [canal]. One of our guys
captured the Germans that were setting charges on the
[tunnel] fixing to blow that. Our whole division went
under that tunnel.
49
We wound up at Pischeldorf, Austria. I tried to
get her [my daughter] when she went to Germany--[but]
there was no such [place in Germany]. Pischeldorf,
Austria, was about forty miles from Salzburg. We had
made it that far. Someone hollered and said, “The war
is over.” That was the end of it.
Smith:
What did you think when they tell you the war is over?
Duke:
We weren’t sure, but there hadn’t been any fighting.
That was kind of an assurance that it was over.
Smith:
Did you guys celebrate?
Duke:
Oh, yes.
Smith:
What did you do?
Duke:
Somebody got a bottle of wine or schnapps. There was
something else. We kind of passed the bottle around.
Some of us got a little tippy, I think. Yes. A fellow
by the name of Blacky Blanchard, I didn’t know it at
the time, but he was an artist. He was sitting on the
steps when we pulled back into Mannheim, Germany. He
was sitting on the steps one day. I walked out and I
had a German flag I had captured in my canteen cup.
I pulled it out and said, “Can you draw a picture on
that?” “Yes.” So he drew a picture of a tank with a
wadded-up barrel on it, a German tank with a waddedup barrel on it. Two or three guys up here. It had my
50
insignia from my 86th Infantry Division. He drew that
on that flag. He was in our outfit. Blacky Blanchard,
he lived in Canada.
Smith:
So what happens? The war is over and what do they do
with you guys?
Duke:
Okay, they wanted us other places. We were important
people then. We pulled from Mannheim, Germany, to
Heidelberg. It was a big college town. Right back to
Camp Old Gold where we came in. From Camp Old Gold we
were put back on this ship and sent home. I’ve got a
picture of that ship somewhere here. I think I’ve got
it in here. [Digging through box] I can get into this
later. There is a picture of my company. I’ve got a
bunch of stuff you can go through if you want to.
Smith:
Sure. So they put you guys on a boat.
Duke:
Yes. We were due to be the first complete division
back.
We
were
due
to
go
to
Japan.
That’s
what
happened. We headed back on a ship coming back from
Germany. I’ve got it there somewhere.
Smith:
Did they tell you guys that you were going to come
back and then go to Japan?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Okay. What did you think about that?
51
Duke:
We were anxious to get home. We had thirty days delayin-route. We came into--I’ve got it written down, up
north. We came in and went to this camp. They sent
us, each one, back to his home base where you shipped
out from. Mine was San Antonio, Texas. I went back to
San Antonio, got thirty days at home.
Smith:
A furlough.
Duke:
Yes. We reassembled at Camp Gruber.
Smith:
How was your thirty days at home? What was that like?
Duke:
Mama and Daddy didn’t know what to do with us and I
didn’t know what to do with them. You still had people
that you knew all your life and you’d walk down the
street and they’d look at you odd. You could just see
[them thinking], “I wonder who he is.” They didn’t
know you. You’d been gone one year but yet they didn’t
know you. It was kind of strange.
Particularly, me, and my cousin, and one or two
more got in somebody’s vehicle and we went to Canton.
We went to Edgewood. We went to Willis Point. We went
to Terrell, all in one night looking for somebody we
knew or something to do. That’s kind of what it was.
You had thirty days’ delay.
[Recording interruption]
Smith:
Okay, you have your thirty day furlough and then what?
52
Duke:
I came home and--I don’t remember. Let’s see. I’ve
got it written down when we came home. I just enjoyed
visiting with my family and everybody. I don’t really
think I dreaded going back. I knew we were coming to
Camp Gruber, Oklahoma, which is right up here and
train in amphibious training again. We did in July
and August. I think it was July. In August we shipped
out again and went back to the West Coast and shipped
out.
In the meantime, while we were gone the bombs
were dropped. We were at sea. Evidently they didn’t
know where they wanted us. I remember somebody saying,
“There is Hawaii over there.” That’s about all. We
crossed the international dateline somewhere. I think
I have the time written down.
We went down to Enewetak in the Marshall Islands.
They don’t want us there. We sat outside Enewetak for
forty-eight hours in an atoll. It’s just a sand dune
out there with trees on it. Of course, they’ve used
it for the atomic bombs since then, I think.
I shipped back to Leyte [in the Philippines] and
then on from Leyte to Batangas, Luzon. They didn’t
have a port so we had to go take a life raft to land
at Batangas, Luzon. The division went aboard there in
53
Manilla then right on up to San Jose and then on up
to--I forgot what it was. I’ve got it all written, I
think.
We didn’t have ammunition. We didn’t have water
and all that. I had a water truck. I would go up in
the hills to the spring and get water and come back.
I was up there one day and the muffler had gone off
the thing and it sounded awfully loud. I come rolling
down through there and there are guys standing out
there waving at me. I saw them waving and just went
on. I got back to camp and the captain like to have
shot me. I had
been running through a communist
defense. They were taking over some of the little
towns in Manilla. I had been running through their
guards and I didn’t know it. They didn’t fire on me
so I made it through, but I was hauling wash water-or water to take showers and whatever. We stayed there
four months, I believe it was. I got enough points to
get out.
Smith:
What did you think about the news when you heard about
the atomic bombs?
Duke:
We actually didn’t hear about it until we got back to
the States.
Smith:
Okay, you didn’t know at that point in time.
54
Duke:
No. We didn’t know why we were out around in there.
Smith:
So you have enough points and you’re discharged.
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Then what?
Duke:
I’m discharged [after] three years and so many months
I had been in. I went in in February and got out in
February.
Smith:
Okay.
Duke:
February 1943 to February 1946. Of course, Hollis was
behind me. He had gone in four months behind me and
he didn’t have enough points to get out so he had to
wait for the next ship.
I had it all mapped out here [referencing his
paperwork]. I lose track of things. Oh well. This
mostly is telling the dates and the times. We left
Camp Old Gold on March 25 coming home. No, that’s when
we were going over. I kept a record so I would have
the dates. For example, I didn’t remember when I left
San Francisco after we got back from Germany. We went
back to San Luis Obispo, loaded on the ship, and when
we left there was before they dropped the bomb. We
were out there somewhere when they dropped the bomb
on August 6 and August 9, [1945].
Smith:
Okay, you’re discharged and then you go where?
55
Duke:
They discharged me, I came home for a while. We were
raising truck patches of tomatoes, turnips, and hogs
for the Pearl Street Market in Dallas. My cousin,
Claude Duke, lived at Grand Saline, which was eight
miles down the road. He came by one day and he said,
“What are you doing?” I said, “Oh, trying to raise
tomatoes, I guess.” “Let’s get you out! Let’s go to
Dallas and get a job.” That’s all it took. We left.
He had a little Ford coupe he had bought. I had
$925 mustering out pay. We got to Willis Point, and
at the service station there was a 1939 Ford sitting
there. We stopped and went in there and talked to him.
We said, “Would you sell that Ford?” “Yes.” “What do
you want for it?” He knew that everybody had gotten
mustered out with $925. He said, “$925.” I said,
“There it is.” I bought a 1939 Ford just like that.
We went to Dallas and didn’t know anybody, didn’t
know anything. We went to Young Street, which was just
an industrial street. Asked if we wanted to drive a
cab. We said, “Oh yes, we know all about it!” He said,
“Where is Main Street?” Some permanent street. Claude
said, “Oh, we don’t know.” He said, “Get out of here.
Y’all don’t know anything about Dallas.”
56
We
went
to
another
place
and
they
were
a
furniture company. There was a truck pulling out. We
said, “We’re looking for a job.” He said, “You want
a job? Hit it! Hang on to that truck right there. He’s
delivering
that
furniture.”
We
hung
on
to
the
tailgate. We drove about ten blocks down there. We
didn’t know what we were going to draw or anything.
We decided we didn’t want the job. We got off ten or
fifteen blocks away from my automobile. We didn’t know
where my automobile was. [Laughing] We spent a half
an evening hunting my automobile but we finally found
it.
We got a job for Southern Supply Company. I
remember it because it was putting up old plow tools
like busters and side plows for forty-eight cents an
hour. We worked there for a while. We got a carload
of flat steel about that wide, forty feet long, and
a half inch thick. He’d get one on one end and I’d
get another and we’d swing it off the car. We did that
all day. When you handle steel you get that old black
stuff all over you. We quit about five minutes early
and went in to wash up. That guy stuck his head in
there and said, “You boys are not through yet. Get
back out there and go to work.” Claude looked at him
57
and said, “Yes we are. Get our checks ready.” We got
paid and left.
I went to work for a butane company at that time.
They made the dome for butane tanks. He went to work
for something else. We knew somebody that had Earl
Hayes Chevrolet so we went to work for Earl Hayes
Chevrolet for a while. Then he decided that he would
go to the fire department. He took a test and went to
the fire department. I took a test and went to the
railroad.
I worked for the Santa Fe Railroad from then on
for thirty-seven and one half years. He retired as a
captain from the fire department in Dallas a year or
two before I did.
Smith:
Did you live in Dallas for thirty-seven years while
you were working on the railroad?
Duke:
[No. My job was relief agent until I had enough
seniority for permanent agent.]
Smith:
When did you meet your wife?
Duke:
[Dallas].
Smith:
At the rail station?
Duke:
No, I had a cousin who was a beautician. She worked
as a beauty operator. My wife decided she wanted to
be a beauty operator. She went to some beautician
58
school and that’s how we met. My cousin introduced
us. I picked her and [Claude] picked another. Two
months later we were married.
Smith:
What year was that that you got married?
Duke:
1946. You’re trying to trick me now. 1946. We’ve been
married sixty-seven or sixty-eight years, something
like that.
Smith:
So you and your wife lived in Dallas.
Duke:
We lived on Beaumont Street. No, I had it a while ago.
When we married, we were married about a year and I
went to telegraph school because I wanted to do a
telegraph. I still do that. I still have my old
telegraph key out there.
We decided that the Union Pacific had a job in
Omaha, Nebraska and so we gave it a try. We took the
1939 Ford with a jeep trailer on it. I’d given her a
cedar chest for Christmas that year. We put it on that
trailer and we took off to Omaha, Nebraska, sight
unseen. Back then they didn’t have hotels and roadside
parks and all that stuff. We got to Omaha, Nebraska,
at 7:00 p.m. with no place to stay. Finally they told
us, “There is a place across the river where you can
go.” We stayed all night that night, and the next day
we were hunting a place to stay.
59
I went to work for the railroad. I was only up
there during the winter. We decided it was too cold
so we came home.
Smith:
So less than a year--
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
--in Omaha? What is your wife’s name?
Duke:
Martha Anne Curry.
Smith:
Okay, so you guys were in Omaha less than one year.
Did your wife work?
Duke:
She’d bounce from this job to maybe the church needed
a secretary and she’d work that. Most of the time she
would help me. We’d go to some little place outside
for a depot agent and they didn’t have any schooling.
So you go in and the guy that was the agent would walk
out and you’d just take over whatever you thought was
best. Me and her would go through his files and see
where we could ship a cream can from this place to
Omaha, $1.18. That’s what we’d charge. We’d make a
bill up. I’d get a week here and a week there. We got
tired of that so we just came home. I went to work
for the Santa Fe Railroad in [February] 1948.
Smith:
And then you stayed there?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
How many children did you wife and you have?
60
Duke:
Three.
Smith:
Can you tell me their names?
Duke:
Two boys, Kenneth Lee Duke--
Smith:
Is the oldest?
Duke:
Yes, and then Dennis Dean Duke. [My daughter’s] name
is Cynthia Joyce Duke. She is named after [Martha’s]
cousin Joyce.
Smith:
What year was that that you had your first child?
Duke:
1950.
Smith:
1950? Okay.
Duke:
We were married in 1946 and had the first one in 1950.
Baby boomer, yes, baby boomer. We’ve been booming ever
since!
Smith:
So what did you do for the railroad for thirty-seven
years in Dallas?
Duke:
I was a telegraph operator to start with--a clerk,
actually. I was a clerk. When I first hired out I did
the telegraph. I still have my keys as I said.
You worked extra. You were relieving this guys
for a week or two weeks. Back when I first started
there was only a week vacation. You’d relieve him for
a week and then a day or two over here and a week
there. Later they got two weeks’ vacation and then
later on they got a little more. I worked in 1948 and
61
1949. I’ve got an old Tower Nineteen on the railroad.
It was on a river. I’ve got a picture of it. It’s in
the new museum out at Frisco now. That tower is the
one I worked.
I worked that for a while. My seniority built up
and as it did I could get a better job. I worked at
Dallas Yard close to Fair Park from 1950 to 1967. In
1967 I went to Paris, Texas. I was the official Santa
Fe agent there.
Then this job came open. It had been built in
1955, this railroad had. It was a new depot. I walked
in and a woman had a white rag, cleaning the window
sills. I thought, “Man, I’m in the wrong place.”
Everything I had been in was 90 to 100 years old.
There were cobwebs, rats, and everything else. This
was the most modern building on the railroad.
Smith:
So you lived in Dallas in the 1960s?
Duke:
1960 to 1967, we left there in 1967.
Smith:
So you lived in Dallas when John. F. Kennedy was
assassinated in Dallas. Do you remember that?
Duke:
Yes, in 1963. Yes.
Smith:
Can you tell me a little bit about it?
Duke:
I had built a house out on Bridal Wreath [Lane] in
Oak Cliff, which is--I can’t think of the name of it,
62
but anyhow. That particular day I had taken the window
out and was building a bookcase in the window. [I
thought] somebody fired a firecracker. A firecracker
went boom, boom, boom, three times.
Smith:
You heard it.
Duke:
Yes, ma’am. There’s been all kinds of verdicts here
and there, but there were three shots because I heard
every one of them. The radio was sitting right there
and somebody said, “Kennedy has been shot!” It wasn’t
firecrackers. Of course, by night they knew Kennedy
had been shot. In fact, we were in Oak Cliff. That
was in Dallas by I-35, you know, where you cross the
old bookstore outfit.
Smith:
Had you considered going to the motorcade?
Duke:
No. We didn’t have time. War was declared December 7,
1941 and I graduated in 1942. All I had to do was just
finish school and I was in there.
Smith:
Oh, no. I mean when John F. Kennedy was assassinated.
Had you considered going down to where his--
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Yes, you thought about going.
Duke:
I had bought a 1963 Chevrolet pickup and the brakes
squeaked on it. Right down on Industrial, by that
time, it wasn’t [Roy Hill. It was] Earl Hayes. It was
63
an [Earl Hayes] Chevrolet. I was going to take it down
there and have it worked on. I was going to walk under
the bridge, under the triple underpass, and stand
right there where he was shot, is what I had in mind.
I got busy [building bookshelves] and didn’t do it.
Smith:
Okay.
Duke:
That’s the only reason I didn’t make it up to the
firing line.
Smith:
Yes, that’s interesting that you heard it.
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
So you would also have lived in Dallas during the
period of the civil rights movement. Did you see
anything? Did you experience anything in Dallas as
that was happening?
Duke:
No, I was too busy trying to make a living [chuckles].
Not really.
Smith:
You just didn’t notice it much in Dallas?
Duke:
No.
Smith:
Okay. So you worked for the railroad for thirty-seven
years in Dallas.
Duke:
No--
Smith:
Oh, I’m sorry you moved.
Duke:
Yes, with the railroad you follow wherever you get a
job, wherever your seniority allows. My seniority was
64
at East Dallas Yard. It’s right there by Fair Park.
In fact, you can go to the park, go under the overpass
and go to Fair Park, and go to the fair. I was there
from 1950 to 1967. My seniority allowed me to go to
Paris in 1967. I was the Frisco Santa Fe agent. This
job came open, which was better, and I took it.
Smith:
What year was that?
Duke:
I came over here in 1969.
Smith:
All right. Wonderful. How long did you stay there
until you decided to retire?
Duke:
In 1969, the railroad, like everything else, had begun
to reduce. They were pulling off a bunch of agents in
small towns and they decided to pull me off. That was
in 1982. They closed my job down. I worked right out
there by Ben E. Keith. That’s where the depot was.
They pulled me off. I had a chance to go to Dallas,
Gainesville, or Fort Worth. I went to Saginaw, which
was at that time I-35W. It was not busy at all. Man,
this was a straight shot so I took Saginaw in 1982.
Smith:
This was in 1982.
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
How long were you at Saginaw?
Duke:
1985. I retired in 1985.
Smith:
And then what did you do?
65
Duke:
I
twiddled
my
thumbs.
[Laughing]
I
do
a
lot
of
gardening and yard work, and I enjoyed that. I did
some carpentry work. I built this house.
Smith:
Oh, did you?
Duke:
Yes.
Smith:
Wonderful. Have you been involved in any veteran’s
organizations?
Duke:
Any what?
Smith:
Any veteran’s organizations?
Duke:
Actually, we in the 86th Division stayed together all
the way through the whole thing, and we had our
reunions every year. We started in 1985 right up here
at Gainesville. I think about twenty or thirty met.
From then on our division, the 86th Infantry Division,
would have every year a reunion. One year the most we
had was 900, half the division. Where was it?
C. Duke: San Diego.
Duke:
What?
C. Duke: San Diego.
Duke:
Yes. I’ve gone to every one of them, and all the old
boys that I was in the army with we met and enjoyed
talking about the army, what we did. Hollis, my twin
brother, passed on in 2010. Our wives got to be bigger
cronies than we were. They were together all the time.
66
They went shopping. They had a ball. Every year we’d
go to the 86th Infantry Division reunion. In 1989 our
president of that union decided to take two busloads
to Germany and go back.
Smith:
Okay, this is when you went back.
Duke:
We went back in 1989. [Gestures] We used this right
here for the bus ride. It went through the whole
thing.
Smith:
What was that like?
Duke:
Great. Great. The people, you couldn’t be treated any
better. They were beautiful people. I said then that
the Germans were a lot better than what we were
fighting. It’s been great. In 2009 we had our last
one at San Luis Obispo. We’ve got what I call a dummy.
We’ve got a soldier out there. See that up there?
Well, I whittled that one to look like his. We’ve got
one of those at San Luis Obispo. There is also one at
Gainesville. Have you ever seen it?
Smith:
No, I haven’t.
Duke:
There’s one just like that up there in life size. The
103rd moved in after we did and they had their reunion
at Gainesville. They put up a replica of the infantry
soldier. That’s what I put up there.
67
Smith:
Your
unit
was
nicknamed--its
other
name
was
the
Blackhawks.
Duke:
The Blackhawks was the name of the division after the
old--it was named after the Blackhawk Indian. It was
named after a Blackhawk Indian. We were called lots
of other things. [Laughter]
We were known as the scarf division at one time.
In the wintertime you couldn’t take a bath so we tied
scarves around [our necks]. We called ourselves the
scarf
division.
Then
the
kid
division.
Nearly
everyone in the 86th Division was born in 1922, 1923,
1924, or 1925. We were all that age. The officers were
not much older. Maybe they were thirty years old. All
the fighting soldiers were eighteen to twenty-one
[years old]. I was twenty-one when I got out. We had
a beautiful outfit. We still do. My wife still calls
her [friend, the wife of a fellow soldier] at Lake
Michigan. She thinks she is just great. She calls her
all the time. There was a few of them that passed on.
Hollis is gone. Nearly all of my buddies are gone.
When you get ninety-one a lot will leave you, but it’s
been great. I wouldn’t trade it.
Every year we’ve had the pleasure of going and
meeting all these people that we were in the service
68
with. They were some great people. We had one old boy
we called “Chief” from Louisiana. Everybody called
him “Chief.” We’ve had a beautiful life, really.
I’ve got five great-grandchildren and they don’t
come see me as often as they should. I think we’ve
been here in this place since 1970. I built this house
in 1970.
Smith:
For people listening to your oral history, using it
for research or people who are just interested in what
you went through, what do you hope they most take away
from your story?
Duke:
The
brotherly
love.
[Emotionally]
I
don’t
meet
another soldier that ain’t my brother. I can see one
in the grocery store who will tell me what outfit he
was in and who he was with. They meet you today and
shake hands with you and it’s great. There will never
be any more closeness than there is with one soldier
to another. Whether other people like it or not,
you’re cemented. I think that would probably be my
best
description
of
my
buddies.
They’re
all
my
buddies.
Back in the days when we were in the service
there was no worry. I could stick my thumb up [as a
hitchhiker] and anybody would pick me up. The guys up
69
here at Gainesville would go to Canada and every state
in the union. All they had to do was stick their thumb
up. [Emotionally] Nobody would pass them up. In fact,
on a weekend pass we had guys go to Michigan, Utah,
California, right here from Camp Howze. They’d be back
Monday morning. You wouldn’t think it but very few
people would pick you up and just ditch you.
[When
we
were
stationed]
in
Alexandria,
Louisiana, me and Hollis decided to go to Orange. My
parents had moved to Orange by that time. We decided
to go to Orange on a weekend. I don’t know what it
was. It was an off-week or something. We hitchhiked
and we caught a ride with an old farmer. He went down
to the deepest woods that you could find. He said,
“Boys, this is as far as I go.” He let us out. The
trees were so thick and heavy that people couldn’t
see us. About 8:00 or 9:00. I got on that side, he
got on this side. We got back to camp about 4:00.
[Laughing] The only time we ever got stranded other
than that you went anywhere you wanted to. You weren’t
afraid of anybody. It was great.
Smith:
Did you ever have any benefit or use of the GI Bill?
Duke:
No, but I go to the VA [Veterans Affairs]. I’m welcome
to it anywhere.
70
Smith:
Yes.
Duke:
Yes. I go to this VA out here every year for a checkup; other than that, no. I’ve been treated awfully
nice by the VA. They at one time got to the point that
people talked about them. “I went out there and I had
to wait all day.” I’ve never had that problem. I think
a lot of it is them. They go out there with an attitude
and I think that’s a lot of it. The VA has always
treated me and anybody I know has been treated nice.
That’s all I have of contact. I don’t have anything
from them. I think they’re fair, myself.
Have I talked you out?
Smith:
You’ve done great. Is there anything that I haven’t
asked you that you wish I had asked you? Is there
anything that we haven’t talked about that you would
like to talk about?
Duke:
No, I don’t guess so.
Smith:
No.
Duke:
No.
Smith:
Thank you for meeting with me. It’s been wonderful
talking to you about all this.
Duke:
I didn’t know if you wanted to see any of this stuff
[gesturing to documents] or not.
Smith:
Sure.
71
[End of interview]
72
A
P
P
E
N
D
I
X
Wallace Duke with his twin brother, Hollis, in 1944 when he
came from Mineral Wells, Texas, to Camp Livingston, Louisiana.
Hollis Duke, 1944.
Wallace Duke (right)
Germany, 1945.
loading
his
.50-cal
machine
gun
in
[Wallace: Below the headlight is a small light called a Cat’s
Eye (marked with an arrow). It was used for blackout driving.
Note “86-343” on the bumper for 86 Division, 343 Regiment.]
Hollis (back row, right) with his squad in Camp San Luis
Obispo, California, 1944.
[Wallace: There were four ships: USS Lejune-to LeHavre, France
(Atlantic); USS Howze-back to the States; USS Brewster-from
Luzon and the Philippines--I came home ahead of Hollis; and SS
Marine Fox-to Eniwetok, Marshall Islands (Pacific).]
[Wallace: Me and Hollis are somewhere in the middle of this.
I drove my Jeep through this, and Hollis walked through it.
This was a few days before Hitler died.]
